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In this episode, host James Larson interviews headshot photographer Vanie Poyey. They discuss the importance of headshots as a marketing tool for actors and the need to define your brand and target specific marketing looks. They also explore the process of determining the number of looks for a headshot session and the common mistakes actors make in headshot preparation and photographer selection. Vanie shares her journey in the industry and the evolution of headshots from film to digital. They also discuss the importance of context and framing in headshots and what agents and casting directors look for in a great headshot. In this conversation, Vanie Poyey, a headshot photographer, shares insights and tips on how actors can optimize their headshots and effectively market themselves. She emphasizes the importance of clarifying your look and being specific in order to avoid giving casting directors a reason to say no. Vanie also discusses the blurring line between commercial and theatrical headshots and the need for actors to focus on their marketing looks. She provides guidance on selecting the best photos and utilizing headshots on social media. Additionally, Vanie shares her perspective on actors’ desire for range versus finding a niche.
Takeaways
Clarify your look and be specific to avoid giving casting directors a reason to say no.
Focus on your marketing looks, which often cross over from commercial to theatrical.
Select the best photos that represent your essence and look.
Utilize headshots on social media by posting them after auditions to reinforce the character you portrayed.
Find a balance between wanting to play a variety of roles and understanding your type and niche.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
02:59 The Importance of Headshots as a Marketing Tool
05:55 Defining Your Brand and Marketing Looks
08:58 Determining the Number of Looks for a Headshot Session
12:56 What Makes a Great Headshot for an Actor
18:56 Vanie Poyey’s Journey in the Industry
22:11 The Evolution of Headshots from Film to Digital
25:03 The Importance of Context and Framing in Headshots
28:08 What Agents and Casting Directors Look for in Headshots
30:06 The Importance of Clarifying Your Look
31:11 Creating Versatile Shots
32:18 The Blurring Line Between Commercial and Theatrical
33:26 Finding Your Marketing Looks
34:13 Choosing the Right Shots for Printing
35:07 Directing Actors to Convey Emotion
36:04 Selecting the Best Photos
37:21 Utilizing Headshots on Social Media
38:39 Etiquette of Tagging Casting Directors
40:07 Vanie’s Hobbies and Interests
48:10 Actors’ Desire for Range vs. Niche
James Larson (00:00.895)
Oh yeah. Oh. Hey everyone and welcome to the Actorzilla podcast. I’m your host, James Larson, and today we have on a very special guest, the amazing headshot photographer, Vani Poie.
Is that right? I said your name right, right? Okay, I know, I was worried too and I was like, we’re gonna have to do another take, but I remember it was Vani because, yeah, right. Your name’s awesome, so.
Vanie Poyey (00:19.356)
You did! I was so worried.
Vanie Poyey (00:27.644)
Yes. Thank you.
Thank you.
James Larson (00:34.334)
How’s it going?
Vanie Poyey (00:36.636)
It’s going good. And it sounds like it’s going well for you as well.
James Larson (00:41.532)
Yeah. Vani is an amazing photographer based in LA and I had the pleasure of shooting with her. It was two years ago now, which is crazy. March, March 2022. And I’ve had nothing but good responses from my shots since then. And I recommend everyone to go check her out. She’s your most active. I mean, you have your amazing blog at
Vanie Poyey (00:52.668)
Wow.
James Larson (01:11.083)
Poyafotos .com and then you also, right, the blog is amazing. I think that’s how I found you actually. I think I was just like Googling stuff about headshots in LA because I had moved out there recently and I found your stuff and I was like, wow, she knows what she’s talking about. She’s really smart. And of course, the shots were amazing, your portfolio. And then you’re also on Instagram, right? I don’t know what other social.
Vanie Poyey (01:14.268)
forward slash log. Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (01:33.628)
Thank you.
James Larson (01:40.347)
Places are you on, are you mostly on Instagram?
Vanie Poyey (01:42.34)
No, just Instagram really. It’s hard to keep up with everything. But I do, you know, Instagram is mostly right now for my photographer following and I plan on sort of nurturing Pinterest for actors, but I’m not there yet. So you can find me on Instagram, Poie Photos, same as my website, P -O -Y -E -Y Photos, like plural.
However, the content is mostly for photographers, but you’ll see my work there.
James Larson (02:15.897)
Yeah, I’m interested in that, because obviously you have dual, kind of a dual audience with photographers and actors. What kind of spurred that focus, I guess, those two different focuses?
Vanie Poyey (02:30.652)
Oh, sure. Yeah. Oh, gosh. OK. Well, the the actor strike kind of pushed me to do something I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. And I always told myself I’m too busy and I don’t have time to do it, which was I’m creating a digital course for photographers to learn headshot photography, like the A to Z of photography, everything from skills to mindset to.
business and marketing. And so I started building my course by taking a course building course and then realized that I, in order for my course to sell, I would need to grow my photography audience. And since I already have a bunch of photographers just organically following me as a headshot photographer, I didn’t want to switch, you know, I didn’t want to switch my account just because they were already there.
So yeah, so here we are. That strike was, I think, interesting, but it caused a lot of people to get off their ass.
James Larson (03:32.022)
That’s cool.
James Larson (03:39.03)
Yeah. That’s kind of… Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Vanie Poyey (03:41.596)
Can I curse? I’m sorry. I do have a of a, as you know, during the photo shoot, I just, I curse.
James Larson (03:50.708)
It’s all good. It only adds to the shots. So I think you answer a lot of the questions that I have, I think, for you, like on your blog. But, you know, I think people want to, I mean, I’m still interested in it. Obviously, this podcast is geared towards actors. And my passion through Actorszilla is basically to help my audience, I say, is like myself, like when I first moved to New York.
Vanie Poyey (03:54.012)
Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (04:08.7)
Great.
James Larson (04:20.307)
You know, like early career actors basically is kind of what I’m kind of targeting. Obviously there’s a lot of different segments of that, like actors of all ages and need headshots. So I’m kind of curious, do you have any advice for that segment particularly? Like people that haven’t gotten, haven’t ever gotten headshots before and their first headshot session and what the process is like?
Vanie Poyey (04:31.836)
Great.
Vanie Poyey (04:49.532)
Yeah, oh my gosh, I have so much to say for the, um, the beginning, the beginner actor. Um, the actors…
that are just starting out kind of have this misconception about what headshots are. They kind of see it more as a as an opportunity to look really pretty or really hot on camera. And I’m not just talking about women and and they just have no clue that you really need to look at headshots as a marketing tool and it’s your business card of sorts. And so they make the mistake of.
just first of all, looking pretty and that’s it with no regard to marketing themselves because they don’t know how. And then second, they make the mistake of thinking, well, I’m just starting out so I don’t need expensive headshots or I don’t need, I should say pro headshots, which are normally expensive.
And that kind of thinking, it literally is backwards. So because you’re just starting out, you actually need pro headshots and not headshots by a friend because that’s what’s going to get agents and casting directors to take you seriously.
James Larson (06:18.894)
I was laughing because I was thinking back to my first headshot session and it was by a friend, of course. I mean, this was in college, but I also took it to New York. And my head was cut off, like, mid -forehead. So it wasn’t even a full headshot. It was like a, I don’t even know what you would call that, but, you know, and… That’s art, yeah. And…
Vanie Poyey (06:23.068)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Vanie Poyey (06:38.908)
Right. Art. We call that art. Yeah, it’s true. I did that too.
James Larson (06:47.212)
Yeah, and I totally, that’s what I would tell myself too, is like, invest more in it. One, because you’re just getting your face out there. Like they don’t know you, and they haven’t gotten to know you yet, and this could be the first impression that you have, and is this the first impression you want to leave on an agent, on a manager, on a casting director? And I would love to hear more about your approach. I’m kind of curious what your thoughts about branding are. I know there’s tons of info out there, but.
You kind of mentioned that a little bit in what you just said about your marketing tools. So what is your approach to that and what’s your philosophy on that?
Vanie Poyey (07:22.492)
Yeah.
Um, well, okay, so, so, yes, you have to be mindful of your overarching brand, but also under that umbrella brand, you need to have very specific targeted marketing looks in your headshots, which means you need to spell out in your headshots specifically what characters you would play and what roles you would audition for.
And how do you figure that out? Well, you figure that out by sort of defining your brand. I know that sounds really confusing and it’s like a fancy word, but it doesn’t have to be. It’s literally just putting into words something that’s very natural to us, which is, okay.
If I look at a list of looks, which, you know, I’m sure James will give you guys the link to my list of popular looks that agents and managers are asking for, right? If I look at that list of looks, there are certain looks that are going to resonate with me because of who I am. And there are certain looks that are going to be supported by how I physically look. So it’s a matter of what you can physically play and I guess what’s the word I’m looking for, like,
what you can physically pass off as believable and what you can pass off as believable with your essence. And the combination of those two is essentially your brand. And then the looks you can pass off as with your look, with your physical look and your essence are going to be your marketing looks. Does that make sense? Or hopefully I didn’t make it more confusing.
James Larson (08:58.246)
Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. I kind of, my brain kind of went to what is your, what are your commercial types? Like if someone saw you in a commercial, because in a commercial you have 10, 15, 30 seconds to really, to instantly get who a person is. So are you, and you have obviously a list of, of archetypes that are, you know, sought after, but are you like the geeky nerd? Are you, you know, the, I don’t know, helpful employee? Like,
Vanie Poyey (09:12.508)
Yes.
Vanie Poyey (09:27.004)
Right.
James Larson (09:27.109)
I know you always include those kind of labels and they’re very helpful as far as clarifying a type. And we all have a variety. It’s not like you just have one that you can do. It’s like everyone has a variety, but what is the variety that you’re going for in this shoot today that’s right for your type right now?
Vanie Poyey (09:38.65)
Right.
Vanie Poyey (09:47.334)
Exactly. I view it as categories and subcategories. Like the two looks that you listed are subcategories of the business category because the helpful employee is…
an employee at their job, right? So that falls under business. And the nerdy type I pictured as like the office guy or even the student, the grad student, again, that falls under the business category. So because that person is doing something that is business like. But yeah, so you can be a number of things under one category.
James Larson (10:04.548)
Right.
James Larson (10:19.715)
bright.
James Larson (10:24.322)
Yeah, so say someone’s gotten their types, they’ve decided on their looks. How do you decide on how many looks you should get? That’s what I wonder, because I know there’s different packages and stuff. Is it just the most that you can afford because then you’ll have the most variety? Or how do you, what do you tell people?
Vanie Poyey (10:38.876)
Mm -hmm.
Vanie Poyey (10:44.124)
Not necessarily. I, well, I’ve made it, okay, so for kids under 13, I don’t recommend more than three looks. Usually anywhere from one to three looks just because they change a lot and depending on how young they are, you know, if it’s an infant, then I would definitely do one look. But the older you get, like,
teenagers all the way up to 56 yeah 50s I would say you are you have a lot more range so then in that case at least four looks should be your minimum but it’s a combination of what did your reps ask for and with me if you don’t have reps then I send you to my list and what did you come up with
combination of that along with what can you afford and then based on that I still have you prepare for what you put together even if it’s less than or if it’s more than what you can afford and then based on that we have a little clothing and look consultation the day of this session where I help finalize which ones you’re going to get the most mileage out of just from my experience. So I still want you to bring everything you think you can do.
James Larson (11:54.272)
Right, and I went on your Instagram. I can’t remember when it was posted, but it was basically like when you tell a client to bring three options per look and they only bring in one. Is that like a common, that’s a common thing?
Vanie Poyey (12:04.718)
Yeah, that’s awesome. Oh my God, yeah, it is. So many people just don’t do their homework.
James Larson (12:13.822)
And it’s, and I mean, I’m not sure that every headshot photographer does that as far as like being as creative as you, as far as like you’re also like help style and you’re like, you know, you want it to be the best look it can be. And the more options you have, the more creative you can be, you know?
Vanie Poyey (12:27.452)
Right.
Vanie Poyey (12:31.932)
Totally, yeah, it’s just not as limiting. And sometimes people are off. They bring one outfit per look and it’s the same t -shirt in different colors for every look. And I’m like, how am I supposed to make that the office guy and this one the best friend? What’s the difference here? I’m not kidding. Yeah, so, yeah, I mean…
James Larson (12:48.318)
Yeah, Photoshop, right? Isn’t it Photoshop?
Vanie Poyey (12:56.124)
The biggest disservice you can do for yourself is spend money on a pro but not take the time to prepare. You know.
James Larson (13:04.893)
Right, and what do you think in general makes a great headshot for an actor?
Vanie Poyey (13:11.74)
Good question. Yeah, that is the age -old question, isn’t it? Yeah.
James Larson (13:14.812)
That’s the age old, yeah. We’ll answer it here, I’m sure. No pressure.
Vanie Poyey (13:19.036)
Okay, so the generic answer is your eyes. Your eyes have to say something.
And that is just so like what the hell does that mean? What do you do with that? My eyes have to say something? Okay, so I’ll smize, you know? No, no, no. I think more specifically what makes a great headshot, there are two things actually that make a great headshot that I should say are effective as a headshot. Number one, casting directors wanna know instantly when your rep submits 7 ,000 photos,
for a co -star role, they need to be able to look at your photo and instantly identify the character. So number one, your headshots need to be specific in terms of type, right? Number two, well, they want to be able to see that you can act and you’re not just posing like a model looking pretty. And so you have to show your personality. Well, how do you do that?
The first part is preparation and hopefully your photographer is giving you guidance on how to prepare. And then the second part is, I think it’s on the photographer to direct you as much as possible and to bring out your personality. And so that’s my job. And that’s, you know, I think that’s what we should do. We should direct actors.
James Larson (14:43.16)
What if you find yourself in a session and you didn’t really know exactly how a photographer would interact with you? Some photographers that I’ve been to, they don’t really direct, or at least as well as you did. I mean, you’re very active and helpful in your directions. And that obviously shows in your work. Like I think that you’re basically wanna capture a moment, right? An acting moment that has personality.
Vanie Poyey (15:01.724)
Thank you.
Vanie Poyey (15:08.188)
Yeah. Yes, exactly.
James Larson (15:11.096)
but some photographers don’t know how to do that or they don’t do it. Is there any way to like salvage that? Like as an actor, you know that you need to be capturing this moment and not like a JCPenney pose, you know? So is there any way to salvage that as an actor?
Vanie Poyey (15:13.948)
Great.
Vanie Poyey (15:22.46)
Right, great. Um…
No, you really gotta come shoot with me. I mean, I’m just kidding. You know, I’ve heard all kinds of advice about that. Have a scene going on in your head, but honestly, that doesn’t work because you’re not in sync with the photographer. You can’t just be in your own world. You guys have to be in the zone together because when you give them something, they need to see that and click. Or when they click, you need to know that they’re about to click. I don’t know if that works, but…
James Larson (15:31.703)
Hahaha.
Vanie Poyey (15:58.638)
But I think that over time, actors just by experience get better and better at giving the specific looks that a character would give just from learning more about themselves as actors and auditioning more and doing more commercials, which is very, you know, facially expressive. But in the end, if that is what you’re looking for, then you really need to do your research and make sure the photographer can deliver what you need, you know, because not everybody wants to be
to do headshots with personality. Some people need and want to do pretty pictures and I think there’s a time and place for that too.
James Larson (16:39.765)
Hmm, what is the time and place for those kind of shots?
Vanie Poyey (16:44.508)
Well, for example, if you are pretty…
and you are at a point in your career where you’re being sent out for principal roles or for principal roles for even not just established shows but for pilots, then you need to market yourself as a leading woman or a leading man and in that case, because you have enough co -star and guest star credits, you can do pretty for all the different types of shots that you’re doing. So, but if you,
James Larson (17:16.691)
Hmm.
Vanie Poyey (17:18.542)
are not going to be a leading man or woman, then in that case I would say you should continue to focus more on personality -based headshots, even when your resume is up to that point. Does that make sense? Yeah.
James Larson (17:36.626)
Right, right, that does make sense, yeah. We kinda touched on it earlier a little bit, just about one mistake that actors make, basically not being prepared enough, but are there any other mistakes that actors make when preparing for headshots or even looking for a photographer?
Vanie Poyey (17:43.74)
Mm -hmm.
Vanie Poyey (17:54.94)
When preparing or looking for a photographer, well…
Yeah, I mean, I’ve seen actors not really do their due diligence when looking for a photographer. They’re just looking for the guy who’s available the soonest. And that’s a big mistake because number one, you didn’t take the time to do your research and you’re going to waste money. And number two, this isn’t something you rush, you know. You want to give yourself at least two weeks because not only do you have to pick out your looks, but then you have to pick out two to three options per look in terms of wardrobe. And then if you don’t have the wardrobe,
wardrobe, you should give yourself time to go shopping and even leave the tags on and you know, don’t like return the clothing if you want, but just yeah, it takes time and you can’t be going for the guy who’s available the soonest. So that’s the first mistake I’ve seen. And then in terms of preparation, just the biggest mistake I see is that people just don’t read the materials we send them for them to prepare. They just don’t read.
And so they’ll show up and they’ll say, yeah, I didn’t know what to bring. So I brought everything. You didn’t know what to bring? Why don’t you know what to bring? Because I told you what to bring.
James Larson (19:06.928)
Right, right. I’m kind of curious about your journey in the whole industry. Like, how did you start out and what drew you to doing headshots?
Vanie Poyey (19:23.644)
Well, I was a, let’s see, college dropout.
Trying to figure out what to do with my life. I went to art school. Well, I’ve been a visual artist all my life and when I went to art school it really screwed me up because it kind of was like way too structured. It didn’t make any sense to me. So I dropped out of art school, went to community college and to be honest school is just, you know, I had to try way too hard to get A’s in school. So I dropped out of that. My friend said you’re an actress. You should take an acting class. So I took an acting class and
And that’s when I started shooting my fellow actors. Just for fun, I was, like I said, I was a visual artist. I already, I was a, you know, a…
an amateur photographer. My dad was a, I would say, a professional hobbyist. So I already knew, because this was like back in the film days, you can just like pick up a camera and like know what to do. Like you do with digital. So I started taking people’s photos. And then as I got more and more nervous about being a waitress forever, I realized I can make a living with headshots.
And however, for me, it was really difficult to maintain both headshots and acting. I just, I felt like I needed to go all in. And I’m an impatient person and I was broke and I just didn’t have…
Vanie Poyey (20:58.588)
what I see actors should have, which is like the willingness to be broke for 10 years and like the drive and ambition to really want it that bad. And, you know, I was directionless, so I clearly didn’t want it that bad. I think what I wanted more was freedom and making money on my terms. And so that’s how I segued into photography. And then when I got fired from my last waitressing job, I just took a chance and put all my eggs in one basket and it took off, luckily.
James Larson (21:27.211)
Wow, were you always in LA?
Vanie Poyey (21:30.652)
Yes, I grew up here. Yeah, from nine years old on. Yeah. Yeah.
James Larson (21:32.331)
Oh, okay.
Oh wow, okay. Cool. Wow, that’s awesome. So what drew you to the arts? I mean, your dad was a photographer too?
Vanie Poyey (21:40.54)
Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (21:45.98)
Yeah, well, I had been drawing since I was little, since literally I could pick up the pencil. So everyone thought, and I would draw fashion figures and everyone thought I would become a fashion designer. But like I said, when I went to art school, it just wasn’t what I thought it was going to be. And the fashion world turned out wasn’t me at all, even though I loved drawing fashion.
it’s just the pretentiousness and the, it was just, you know, I just can’t. It wasn’t me. So, yeah, I became like very disillusioned going to art school and dropped out and then had to figure it out. There was something about photography. You know, I just did it as a hobby when I was a teenager and I would just document my crazy party life. But something about it gives instant gratification. You know, if you’ve ever…
like taking a photo and now it’s even more instant obviously with digital but it’s just instant because you see yourself capturing something and creating art so yeah so it just made sense.
James Larson (22:52.264)
I’m kind of curious how, because obviously you’ve seen it change from film to digital, you know, obviously headshots went from what, black and white mostly early on. Like what has been the evolution that you’ve witnessed in your work?
Vanie Poyey (22:56.442)
Mm -hmm.
Vanie Poyey (23:02.78)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (23:08.934)
So it was all black and white and that’s because it was not very cheap to produce.
color, even processing color film was more expensive than black and white. Black and white is very forgiving and people look really good in black and white in case you haven’t noticed when you put on a black and white filter on Instagram. And then what happened was then came digital.
And it was right around when digital cameras were starting to get big that technology shifted and then the production labs were able to produce color headshots for the same price as black and white because before they used to be super expensive. So that’s when it turned into color.
And I can’t believe people thought it was a phase. Some people thought it was a phase. I’m like, no, it’s not. It’s like color film, you know, like movies. And then, oh, and before like, before Web.
submissions came about, we used to be able to take three quarter shots and call them headshots. And for me, that was really much more fun and expressive and creative, really, to be honest. And also it allowed the actor to convey so much more with body language, you know? So I felt like it was harder to like zoom in and do headshots. But once everything went digital and like you had to submit online.
James Larson (24:38.212)
Right.
Vanie Poyey (24:48.604)
there were like all the agents were like stop stop doing that get in we got to see their heads we got to see their face so so that so it’s turned into like super tight whereas before you could break those rules and nobody would say anything if it was a great headshot you know
James Larson (25:03.745)
curious about, because you’re framing, I mean, I like your framing a lot because it tells a story, you know, with the whole, with what you’re wearing, with the personality. Do you, I mean, do you see that as a disadvantage, not as a disadvantage, but in a world of thumbnails, right? Where you see, like, I guess how, yeah, I think you see what I’m getting at, yeah.
Vanie Poyey (25:26.78)
Yeah, I see what you’re getting at. Yeah, I mean, okay. So what James is talking about is my framing is slightly wider than a headshot, slightly. It’s still above the waist. It’s above the waist, but it’s below the chest. So it’s like between the chest and the belly button. But I do that for a reason, because…
James Larson (25:41.345)
than just like, yeah, right.
Vanie Poyey (25:52.316)
What I’ve noticed is that when you upload your photos to the casting sites, the aspect ratio of the main photos, like before you actually, like if you’re on Actors Access, like those little thumbnails, that is not the same aspect ratio as what comes out of a camera. So it naturally, it crops your photos for you. So what ends up happening is all that space goes away. So if you pre -crop it in the camera,
Then it becomes so tight that then you don’t have any negative space and you don’t have any context So why are you even changing clothes at that point, you know, so without context? You’re not going to be able to differentiate the characters from one another So I actually tell my clients don’t I’m so sorry. I have a cough So sorry I tell my clients don’t pre crop before you upload them because uploading them will crop them anyway, but
but by not pre -cropping them and because I’m a little wide, you’re still gonna be able to see the character and the outfit and have some context as to who the character is. And we’re not just relying on your expression. Ideally, you wanna rely on the expression and the outfit together to tell a story and let us know which type it is.
James Larson (27:11.005)
Yeah, and I’ve even seen, when I go in person, they print it out and there’s more context. I don’t know what that is in the process, but there seems to like, I’ve seen, you know, where people crop in too much, it’s just like their head and it’s kind of a disembodied head, you know, but with your shots, it’s more, you get a more context, which I think is great.
Vanie Poyey (27:27.772)
Yeah, yeah.
Vanie Poyey (27:32.284)
Yeah, there’s really no point in doing types if you’re gonna crop it that tight, you know? Yeah. And also by not cropping it, then if they click on that little one, the little thumbnail, they’ll see the whole thing, which gives them even more context, you know, which I think is more effective, so.
James Larson (27:37.181)
Right, right.
James Larson (27:48.636)
Right.
Right, right. It’s such a, it’s kind of interesting because what do you think agents and casting look for in a headshot these days?
Vanie Poyey (28:08.316)
I think, aside from it being a headshot and not a three -quarter shot, I really think that they need to see more casting directors than anything because it’s casting directors that are dictating what agents ask for. So casting directors are just overwhelmed with the amount of submissions for each role. And so…
they just really need to have the character type in your headshot match what’s in the breakdown, period. And that’s why you need specific characters. They need to be able to see, oh, this is the creative professional that we can cast in a show like Upload on Amazon.
You know what I mean? Oh, she works in an office, but she works in a creative space. It just, it needs to be instant. It can’t be a general, yeah, you know, when you told me like, when you asked me about the transformation, that was one of the main transformations. It’s like before we used to just be able to take general headshots of you, but now it can’t just be a general photo of you that looks like you. It’s gotta say something about who the character is. And that’s why.
James Larson (29:10.395)
Hmm.
Vanie Poyey (29:20.156)
like a lot of clients will come back and add to their staple shots.
because you can like ask for submission reports from your reps, right? And you can see what they’re submitting and what’s not working and what you’re not getting called in for. And I’ve had clients who look at that and go, oh, I’m consistently not getting called in for the doctor. Okay, so why don’t we do one in a lab coat? I know it sounds super cheesy and this was like back in the 80s, like they did this, but now it’s back because that’s how competitive it is. And so then you just add that to your staple four shots that you’ve done, you know, the doctor in a lab coat and then you get called in.
James Larson (29:55.705)
Right, because it’s basically goes back to what you said about casting directors needing like an immediate, they want to see you as the role, as close as possible, right?
Vanie Poyey (30:05.276)
Yeah. And.
And you know, like don’t listen to those negative comments about they have no imagination. I hear that a lot. That’s not it. I think by not making by not clarifying your look, you are adding what in marketing is called friction. Friction causes people to pass. OK, so if you give them a reason to say no, they will. So don’t give them a reason to say no. Give them a reason to say yes. And that is.
by being clear and specific with your looks. Because if they can’t figure it out and you don’t quite fit the role, it’s a pass. It’s a no.
James Larson (30:45.207)
I see it as like the Amazon buy button, like the one click purchase. Like they reduced, you know, like, you know, the number of steps. Yeah, it’s like, you want a casting director to have just one click, boop, that’s our guy or girl, you know. Yeah. Another interesting thing with your shots that I’ve found,
Vanie Poyey (30:49.212)
Yes.
the number of steps you have to go through. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (30:59.836)
Oh, I like that. I like that. I’m going to steal that.
James Larson (31:11.445)
of every session that I’ve had with any other photographer, I have such a variety in my back pocket as far as each look has quote like dramatic and quote comedic elements to it that I can draw from, if that makes sense. Like I’m dressed the same, but the energy, the way that you directed it I think, and the way that it just happens in our session was like.
I can use it for a dramatic Silicon Valley thing or I can use it for a funny Silicon Valley thing. I’m curious what your opinion on that is. Because they have legit versus commercial versus all that designation.
Vanie Poyey (31:45.82)
Right.
Vanie Poyey (31:53.276)
Yeah, yeah, and the next question I gotta record you for Instagram, if you don’t mind. I do that on purpose because I don’t believe in, again, this is now, like before we used to have hard differences between commercial and theatrical during the black and white days and it’s really changed.
James Larson (31:59.125)
Oh, of course.
Vanie Poyey (32:18.072)
I think just because everything’s changed on TV, the roles have changed, opportunities have changed, women work more color. If you’re black or brown, you’re gonna work more. So with headshots, there’s no real black and white between theatrical and commercial, or legit, you guys call it, on the East Coast. And so what I do is, okay, let’s figure out what is your…
marketing looks, what are your marketing looks? And 95 % of those marketing looks are gonna cross over from commercial to theatrical. So in other words, if you play the dad in a one hour drama like This Is Us, why wouldn’t you also play the dad in a Home Depot commercial? Like it makes sense. So your brand, your…
Target market is dad, right? Not target market, but your specific marketing look is dad. So I just have my actors focus on what looks resonate with them and what looks their essence and their look, what types their look and essence can support.
And then, if it’s a crossover, which 95 % of the time it is, then I direct you in such a way, so like I give you an emotional arc so that you have both the commercial and theatrical versions and then you can use them however you wish and you don’t have to have two photo shoots, you know, both your agents can see them and both of them will pick different essences to work for them, for their purpose.
James Larson (33:46.899)
And it basically, I mean, as an actor too, I love that because it basically doubles how many shots you’re getting instead of being like, oh, this is my happy commercial shot. You’re like, no, this is your, you could, you know, you go from like, I don’t know, a person who’s on trial for something to, you know, best spy employee in the same look. You know what I mean? Like it can, it’s not about the look, best spy, yeah, exactly. So I love that. And I.
Vanie Poyey (34:06.076)
Right. Or Best Buy Shopper. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there’s…
There’s times when it’s not a crossover. Like for instance, if you were to pick a look like a villain or an anti -hero, most of the time that’s going to be drama only. And in that case, then the lighting is going to be very gritty and not appropriate for commercials. And that’s okay because that, you know, because you will get cast as that and it doesn’t have to go to commercial. And it’s the same, you know, for commercials too. There’s a bunch of commercial looks that don’t go theatrical.
James Larson (34:42.515)
Right. I’m about to ask my next question. I don’t know if you want to.
Vanie Poyey (34:45.98)
I’m gonna record it then.
James Larson (34:51.735)
So I’m curious, we’ve talked about your process, but I’m curious about how you help actors convey the right emotion or how you get that emotional arc in your sessions. How do you direct people? What is your approach?
Vanie Poyey (35:06.254)
Oh.
Yes, and as my client, you know my secret. So I play improv games with actors. I like, I’ll throw lines at you, have you be in character, and there’s a back and forth, so it doesn’t give you time and space to get in your head and think about how to smile or get nervous even. And if you are nervous, then you instantly snap out of it because all of a sudden,
James Larson (35:10.899)
I do.
Vanie Poyey (35:37.342)
you’re in your safe space, which is you’re acting with me and you’re in the zone with me. And so whatever happens, it’s very organic and it’s under my control. So because I’m directing you, I’m also pressing the shutter whenever I see the expression I need. And then with digital, it’s so awesome because then I delete all the ones that don’t work. So leaving me with the best, you know, so my proof sheets often have like…
You know, like I get rid of repeats and so my proof sheets, they don’t look like the same face, you know, in different outfits, like a million of them repeated. They literally will have like different expressions from frame to frame, which gives you and your reps a ton of choices, you know, in terms of how to market the character even, you know, like, oh, what kind of essence? Oh, we want the theatrical one here that says, I’m sorry, I’m going on and on, but like.
The other day I was picking photos for one of my clients, you know, because a lot of times my clients will ask me to pick the best choices. And so what I did was I picked two from each group, from each look. And one of them was a suburban mom look. And so one look I picked was a suburban mom that was very judgmental.
and you know maybe you know like lives in a shishi foo foo neighborhood um maybe like on the pta but super judgy and then the other one was like the um i’m the boss of the house you guys better listen to me mom you know just with the two different expressions and i was like hey you know i think these are the best ones that i think you that are good for you in terms of like
who you are when you walk in the room, believably.
James Larson (37:28.691)
I’m curious, you know, obviously you get so many options digitally and is there a process, because I wonder how it is in LA too, because I was trying to decide which ones to print, because obviously you’re not going to be able to print like every single option. Is there like, is there a philosophy you have on that of like picking one more general shot that will work for more variety of roles or?
Vanie Poyey (37:49.69)
Right.
James Larson (37:57.779)
out just print out a lot.
Vanie Poyey (37:59.708)
No, I would not print more than just one look. If you have a rep, they will.
James Larson (38:03.667)
Okay.
Vanie Poyey (38:07.196)
they will let you know which one they want you to print, if any. But if you’re just starting out and you’re sending yourself out for maybe student films or low budget stuff where you’re not necessarily submitting online, you really just need one photo. Because in the world of online submissions, prints are out. You don’t even show up with a print anymore. There was a time when there was that crossover, they were submitting online, but then you showed up with a print.
James Larson (38:11.315)
Right, yeah.
Vanie Poyey (38:37.166)
You don’t even do that anymore.
James Larson (38:39.347)
It is in New York, at least I do a lot of theater work as well, so that is still a process here that you would show up with something sometimes. No, no, it’s… Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (38:49.308)
Okay, then don’t listen to me on that. Well, yeah, okay, well for theater, it’s different. For theater, it’s different, but even maybe for TV film too in New York, you’re saying?
James Larson (38:59.469)
No, that’s more like they usually have a printed list so you don’t usually have to do it for TV film. But but Buffert Theatre mostly, yeah. And if you do other sorts of performing. But do you pick, how do you pick one? Is it mostly just like, what do you, I don’t know, because does that go towards a more like pick one that generally gets your vibe?
Vanie Poyey (39:06.012)
Okay, okay, but for theater, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
Vanie Poyey (39:24.988)
Oh, okay, I see what you mean. I would say…
It depends on which looks you’ve done, but like I remember you did one of your looks was the guy next door, the friend. And yeah, I guess like for you, that’s the one I would pick because that’s most closest to who you are in person besides who you can become. So that’s, I guess that’s what I would do is the one that most represents you, the real you and not the actor you.
James Larson (39:57.395)
Yeah, that makes sense because because they’re also there to remember, you know in person when you go in person They’re there to meet you and get your energy as well as the characters. So Yeah, I’m curious You know with social media How do you think I? Mean, how do you think an actor can best utilize their headshots in their social media? and marketing
Vanie Poyey (40:07.62)
Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (40:22.596)
Oh. Ooh.
James Larson (40:24.691)
Like, should they be posting their headshots a lot or?
Vanie Poyey (40:28.188)
You know what? Well, your question just gave me an idea. Because I feel like actors post their headshots and they’re like, hey, look at my headshots. I got new headshots. Hire me. Look, isn’t this the best like cop shot you’ve ever seen? I can play a cop on such and such show and then they’ll tag the show or the casting director or something. But.
James Larson (40:46.739)
to hang the cast.
Vanie Poyey (40:48.028)
But wouldn’t it be cool if after your, like I see actors posting their auditions, you know? Wouldn’t it be cool if after your audition, just at the end, you post your headshot that you think goes with that character? Just an idea.
James Larson (41:04.915)
Yeah.
and then tagging the photographer so they get, no, just kidding.
Vanie Poyey (41:10.808)
Tagging the photographer, tagging your agent, tagging whoever you need to, but I think it’ll just help the people who have eyes on you to more clearly see what it is you’re trying to do. I don’t know, I just thought of a better way to use headshots on social media than to just post them and be like, ah, look at these.
James Larson (41:13.851)
I’m
James Larson (41:33.267)
No, I like that. It kind of reinforces. Like, you show your work and then you reinforce that, you know.
Vanie Poyey (41:37.294)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, reinforces a good, yeah, that’s a good word.
James Larson (41:40.819)
That kind of brings up a question for me, which is what is the etiquette now as far as like, do you, because to me, tagging a casting director, I don’t know, that just seems, I mean, is that okay? Like, or that seems a little far -fetched to me, not far -fetched, but is that like cool to do in this day and age?
Vanie Poyey (41:57.404)
Alright, yes and no. Yes and no. Here’s the key on social media with anything and anybody that you would like to connect with. Tagging them randomly is not good form and it annoys people. However…
If you have been stalking that casting director and commenting on everything they post genuinely commenting and Genuinely commenting means like actually making smart comments about the content they post and you’ve been doing this for like three months Believe me. They have taken notice and they know who you are
And at that point, they are a lot more inclined to take a look at your work if you tag them and they will not be annoyed. And I can tell you this just from the perspective of a photographer who, you know, like I’ll have followers.
And all of a sudden they pop into my feed and they’re just asking me or they’re just like following along, supporting and commenting and saying nice things. And like I’ve taken notice. And then all of a sudden, one day they pop into my DM and they ask a question and they need help. Well, of course, I’m going to help them at that point. And same with my photographer followers. You know, they ask for advice. I’m going to give them advice and I’m not going to treat them like spam. So I think that’s a
strategy.
James Larson (43:32.115)
Yeah, basically just being a person and genuinely interacting with people. It’s like, what would you do in real life? You wouldn’t just go up and start trying to spam people or whatever. It takes time to get to know someone. Thank you for sharing that. That’s awesome. Is there any like…
Vanie Poyey (43:37.872)
Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (43:45.756)
Yeah, exactly.
James Larson (43:55.261)
memorable photo, like photo shoot or like session that sticks out to you or I’m just curious. I’m putting you on the spot, I know, but I’m just wondering.
Vanie Poyey (44:02.724)
memorable like in a good way or a bad way? memorable um
James Larson (44:07.219)
or a bad way, I’m just, you know, you don’t have to name names, but I don’t know. Any funny stories from that side?
Vanie Poyey (44:18.524)
Um, I mean, yeah, like the most memorable photo shoot, I would say. Yeah, it’s always the bad ones that come to mind, right? And the good ones, you always just have a really good feeling about that person forever and like you love them. But the bad ones are the ones, you know, it just goes to show, I teach my photographers, people remember how you make them feel.
James Larson (44:26.963)
Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (44:45.404)
So it’s really important that you welcome people with an open heart and give them a stellar experience, because that’s what they’ll remember over their headshots. But yes, I had a client who apparently was in the makeup chair crying for an hour. And I had a makeup artist I was trying out. So her and I did not know each other very well yet. And…
James Larson (44:45.427)
Hmm.
Vanie Poyey (45:13.008)
Sure enough, it turns out she can’t handle difficult situations, so she did not come back after that. So apparently the client was crying in the makeup chair and the artist was having to redo the makeup over and over again instead of knocking on my office door over here and saying, hey, I’m having trouble because the client’s crying. So she finally came over after an hour and I was wondering why it’s taking so long and said the client’s crying. I go over there, long story short, the client’s crying.
I try to console her. I’m really awkward with people who cry around me. I should say strangers. And I’m really awkward about crying in front of strangers. I don’t like showing that kind of vulnerability. So I’m awkward and she’s crying and I’m doing my best to figure out what’s wrong. And it turns into a two hour, I kid you not, two hour therapy session where me and the makeup artist are trying to, you know,
helped this girl who I tried many times to say maybe we shouldn’t shoot but she kept saying she wants to and you know lesson learned I should have just said no we cannot shoot. It took me two hours to get there that was lame learning lesson. I felt bad for her and gave her back her deposit.
Plural, three deposits, she had rescheduled three times, that’s two for $600. And I said, you come back when you’re in a better place in life. What did this girl do? She went and gave me a bad review. Because apparently I told her to get on antidepressants.
And I told her, hey listen, I’m on antidepressants. I’ve been on them like forever. It’s okay, but she took offense to that apparently. So there you have it. You can’t, you know, you can’t win. With the crazies. I’m gonna say she was a crazy.
James Larson (47:16.627)
Wow, that sounds like a situation for sure. You didn’t have to call me out like that. It’s on my own podcast, but no, just kidding.
Vanie Poyey (47:19.58)
It was a situation. It was a situation. Yeah.
Vanie Poyey (47:32.572)
I did say she.
James Larson (47:34.643)
Yeah, I know. I was just trying to make a stupid joke. But that’s cool. That’s a story. That’s a story.
Vanie Poyey (47:44.476)
It’s a story to remember.
James Larson (47:51.347)
I’m kind of curious about…
James Larson (47:57.523)
If an actor, has an actor ever come to you and been like, oh, I just want to play this one type of character, or do most actors like they want to play the biggest variety that they can?
Vanie Poyey (48:10.652)
I think when actors come to me, just the nature of what I offer attracts actors who have a desire to…
play a range of characters, I think it’s the opposite. I think most actors wanna be everything and that’s a problem because you have to stick inside of your brand and what’s believable, like not everyone is cut out to play the hero or the heroine. And like everybody wants to play the hero and the heroine even if they can’t believably pass as one.
number one with their look and number two with their personality. So I would say niche down and make sure that the types that you choose fit your essence and your look and…
Don’t try to be everything to everyone. That is a big mistake in every business. And you know, you have to look at this as a business. That is a big mistake, actually, because then you’re just throwing spaghetti in the hole and hoping it sticks. Whereas if you niche down their strategy and you’re kind of a bigger fish in small water, if that makes sense.
James Larson (49:30.387)
Yeah, I think the way you phrased it was much better than my original question, so I thank you. Basically, I think when I was younger, I had an issue about being self -aware of what maybe my type was, or maybe I knew what my type was, but like you said, I wanted to be the leading man, or I wanted to be more, I thought, oh, I can do it all. I think a lot of people,
Maybe they start in theater or they start in school. And they do, they get cast in these roles that you’re gonna play an 80 year old man when you’re 17, you know? And it’s like, well, that’s great for high school, but now you’re in the real industry, you know? And it’s like, you’re probably not gonna be cast as that. And it’s fine, you can still play a variety of roles, but you have to like be more focused and have a smaller pool of roles that are, you know, it’s like, and it’s where that.
Vanie Poyey (50:02.684)
Right.
Hey, hey.
James Larson (50:26.771)
It’s where your expectations and the industry expectations meets, where it’s like, this is where I think I am, and this is where other people see me as too. I think it’s important to find that mix and that balance, and it’s only gotten better for me as time goes on. But I think a lot of early actors, I was confused by what my type should be and…
Vanie Poyey (50:30.844)
Yes.
Vanie Poyey (50:37.564)
Yes, exactly.
James Larson (50:54.803)
I think people are maybe more aware of, or I would hope they’d be more aware of what they look like, what their energy says about them, what roles they can play. I think, I would hope that people nowadays would be more aware of that instead of fighting against it.
Vanie Poyey (51:15.036)
Yes, lean into your stereotype, so to speak. But yes, there’s a lot more information out there now with social media. You know, like I know Melissa, the owner of Rock Your Real, she does like a type me course, like a little mini course. So you can even, I mean, there’s more. I just, she was the first one that came to mind, but there’s a lot of like little mini courses you can take.
James Larson (51:20.051)
All right.
James Larson (51:39.795)
right.
Vanie Poyey (51:44.956)
that will help you figure that out as a new actor. Because I know it can be super confusing when you don’t know, when you don’t have any experience.
James Larson (51:54.035)
Right, right. I’m curious outside the industry, are there any hobbies or interests that you’re into right now?
Vanie Poyey (52:06.044)
That question really makes me sad because as I work on my digital course, I don’t have a life and I don’t have a hobby. But…
James Larson (52:10.467)
Why?
James Larson (52:22.483)
Education, right? Education is an interest for you then.
Vanie Poyey (52:24.988)
Yeah, I guess. I guess that’s my hobby right now. But it’s all work, work, work right now. But if I like, yeah, under normal times, I would say hiking. I’m a foodie. If that counts as a hobby, I’m a snob when it comes to food. I’m sorry. But no, I like to.
James Larson (52:43.091)
Like foodie isn’t like a cook, like you cook things or you enjoy food.
Vanie Poyey (52:47.42)
I like to enjoy good food when I go out to eat. I center, like if I go on vacation, so like I’ll plan, okay, we’re gonna go and see this site and this site and this site, and then I will go and figure out what time lunch is gonna be and what restaurant in that area is rated by Zagat or is rated well by Zagat or Michelin or whatever, and like that’s where we’re gonna eat. Like I will not go randomly.
into a restaurant without checking my best friend Yelp. Yeah, exactly.
James Larson (53:22.963)
You’re like the anti Anthony Bourdain. I’m just kidding.
No, that sounds amazing. I love that. Is there any food that you like particularly or just all kinds?
Vanie Poyey (53:36.388)
Mmmmm
Vanie Poyey (53:40.924)
Whoa, okay, no, I can’t really say. Yeah, I’m pretty eclectic. And you know, I’m a wannabe vegan, which makes being a foodie much harder. But when I ate everything, I was a foodie and I’ve learned to still appreciate really good restaurants. But like, no, no, no, no.
James Larson (53:59.411)
Does that mean like as you’re eating a steak, you’re like, this is tofu, this is tofu? Okay.
Vanie Poyey (54:04.602)
No, no, no. That’s good. No, I don’t eat meat. I don’t eat chicken. I just recently cut out fish. I am trying hard to cut out cheese. And the only thing I don’t do is I’m still not there when it comes to ingredients. Like if like there’s a sauce that I’m using and the ingredient has milk in it, I just like I can’t, you know, I don’t have the lifestyle to be able to go that strict yet. I’m working towards it.
James Larson (54:31.987)
Great. You’re working towards it? Okay.
Vanie Poyey (54:35.132)
Yeah, it’s hard when you live with two people who eat meat. So it’s really hard.
James Larson (54:40.403)
Yeah, yeah. But there’s some delicious, I mean, in New York, there’s amazing, I went to this vegan sushi place and it was like one of the most amazing restaurants that we’ve ever been to.
Vanie Poyey (54:51.162)
Oh my god. Plus you have that really, oh what’s his name? He was, ah, I always forget his name. Like his restaurant is like 11th something or 13 something. What is it? Anyway, he’s like this famous chef. He was just featured in that documentary called You Are What You Eat on Netflix.
James Larson (55:11.027)
Yeah, I think I saw that. The entire restaurant went vegan. Yeah, 11 Madison Park or something. What is it called?
Vanie Poyey (55:15.068)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like super, yes.
Yes, 11 Madison Park, super, super famous award winning worldwide famous chef. And during the pandemic, he went all vegan and, and like, it costs like $300 a person to eat there and it’s vegan and people come out of there like raving about it and everyone thought he was going to fail. So I think if more, more, you know, like those kinds of restaurants where you go, like, you know, if you’re lucky, you can afford them once a year.
James Larson (55:21.459)
Yeah.
James Larson (55:25.587)
I s – Yeah.
Yeah.
James Larson (55:48.467)
Right.
Vanie Poyey (55:48.636)
I think it’s more like fine dining restaurants went vegan. I think it would become a trend, but yeah, he’s a trendsetter. Yeah, yeah, really good one.
James Larson (55:54.483)
That was a great documentary, I saw that too.
James Larson (56:00.467)
Lani Poyet, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
Vanie Poyey (56:05.756)
Thank you for asking me to. I’m honored.
James Larson (56:08.115)
Of course. And everyone, yeah, go check out, do you have any special links or just your website and Instagram?
Vanie Poyey (56:15.9)
Yeah, you guys should download my wardrobe guide wherever you are. It’ll help you. If you, you know, go to my…
website poyefotos .com P as in Paul O Y E Y P H O T O S dot com and you are gonna see a Banner that’ll take you to my wardrobe guide where you can download it I think you’ll find it’s it’s probably the best wardrobe guide out there until people Until my competition downloads it and copies it but right now it’s the best meaning. It’s very comprehensive It’s like four pages. It’s super detailed. It’s not just like do this and do that
James Larson (56:55.059)
Well, I think you have no competition. I think you’re in a league of your own. So. All right. Thank you so much, Vani.
Vanie Poyey (56:57.468)
Yeah, okay. Thank you, though.
All right, thank you, James.
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